Five years ago in Windber, PA, Martin Zender interviewed Clyde Pilkington about Clyde's book on2 Timothy titled, "The Church in Ruins." Martin had spent the previous eighteen weeks analyzing this book on his internet show, and on this day the author himself joined Martin in the studio. Enjoy this one-two punch detailing the truth that the body of Christ exists and thrives outside of the mainstream religious institution, not in it.